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Post by thismachinebleeds on Aug 18, 2004 14:42:37 GMT
ok, so im kind of confused on what the Respect coalition (this name in its self envisions beardy school teacher types with leather arm patches, shouting RESPECT, and an ali g type of hand gesture, to a bemused youth with his hat turned at a jaunty angle) has actually done for the local area??? the "please vote for us, to really piss off the labour party, cos they havent done much for the area" fell on deaf ears. the main parties still got the vote, the BNP still got elected, and what did 'georgeous george' and his crew get here? nothing. well, do i sense another trot party drowning in its own failings (as the socialist alliance did)? i hope so! sod the politicos of the parties telling us to follow their example.....long live the people...long live ANARCHY ;D
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Post by octoberlost on Aug 19, 2004 14:05:49 GMT
The sad thing is that RESPECT puts the writing on the wall for much of the old left, the question begs what will take its place? With the decline of political parties, I hope its affinity groups doing community DA but lets its hope apathy and worse yet fascism are miles off.
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Post by michele cryer on Aug 19, 2004 14:39:28 GMT
Thank you thismachinebleeds and Octoberlost...
I'm still trying to make my mind up about the current 'lefty' groups....SWP and Respect...and attending meetings...
I hope to be able to post minutes of local meetings of the above and so show in which ways they are trying to make a difference in our local communities...
Michele
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Post by octoberlost on Aug 20, 2004 12:40:40 GMT
Again, I know I like to rant...but, the SWP and RESPECT are embryos not for political change but for political power.
The best intiatives we can get involved with is encouraging autonomy, democracy and direct action within the various spheres of our lives, especially the community and the workplace. But this has nothing to do with membership of a political body, or voting.
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Post by michele cryer on Aug 20, 2004 14:20:14 GMT
Thank you Octoberlost...I'm a bit dim sometimes so no need to worry about your 'rants'...they help to educate me!! lol.
As I said earlier, to one of my friends, I haven't given up on either SWP or Respect because I'm just happy to be associated with any organisation that appears to be trying to help change things...altho the methods you mention do seem to be a better way of changing things locally at first, and hopefully nationally as others see them working out...
Hope that doesn't sound too dim!!
Michele
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Post by octoberlost on Aug 23, 2004 13:07:22 GMT
Change things to what end? A free libertarian end? Surely that can only be achieved by practising precisely those things you want to achieve. Freedom must equal freedom, it cant be any other way. The things we want have the oppurtunity to be implemented in the now.
So again why the need to assemble the troops? Why form a strong coercisive discipline? Why the need for an established leadership? Why use tired methods of agitating and organising?
All this does is stifle creativity, no worse, it actually represses it and replaces it with something much more rigid, made all the worse because it claims to represent emancipation.
Each in there own ways those who look to take office are the enemy of the people, because they seek ways of the government (minority) ruling the people, oblivious of the majority. Our task is to organise that majority...but there is no party big enough, nor offers enough freedom for the human spirit to achieve its just end.
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Post by michele cryer on Aug 23, 2004 13:18:19 GMT
Thank you Octoberlost, If you ask Mitch she will tell you that I am speedily coming round to your way of thinking...
Michele
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Post by octoberlost on Aug 25, 2004 16:08:57 GMT
Thank you Octoberlost, If you ask Mitch she will tell you that I am speedily coming round to your way of thinking... Michele I hope by that you mean you are coming around to YOUR OWN WAY OF THINKING  Theres only you that as the power better yourself |
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Post by michele cryer on Aug 25, 2004 16:15:26 GMT
haha, thanks Octoberlost..never thought about that... 'Your own way of thinking'...lol.
Michele
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Post by Sircliff on Sept 8, 2004 14:19:02 GMT
Well it appears that at least Respect is getting a mention so they must be doing something right.
As an SWP member we realise that their are problems with working within Respect but their are also plusses.
One of these is that the Respect councillor in Preston Mike Lavallette has persuaded the council to twin with Nablus in Palastine. This has resulted in a delegation of ten people going to Nablus this week to work with the Palastinian people.
Secondly in the Leicester South by-election Respect polled the largest ever vote of any party ever coming fourth in any British election in history. In the Birmingham constituency that they stood in they polled the third highest of all time. I would consider this to be a triumph for any party only formed in January this year.
They have also tried hard to get some sort of agreement with the Greens about who stands where and having a joint policy, unfortunately the Greens rejected this to their cost in the Euro elections. If they had gone along with it they would now have one more Euro MP than they have, because in one of the constituencies the joint vote of both parties would have given them this.
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Post by Steve on Sept 8, 2004 14:39:57 GMT
When did Preston twin with Nablus? That's news to me.
Also I'd just like to point out that Michael Lavelette was elected as a "Socialist Alliance Stop the War" candidate. He then switched to Respect when the SWP ditched the Socialist Alliance. There was another Respect councillor in Preston who had switched after she was deselected by Labour. She was the person reponsible for selling off Preston's council housing. She lost her seat at the last election.
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Post by octoberlost on Sept 9, 2004 13:41:56 GMT
Giving the impression that the SWP 'work in' RESPECT is somewhat an illusion, since it basically is the leadersip of the organisation.
In terms of criticism of RESPECT I would say its bland and devoid of anything short of left-wing popularism, yet without the popularity.
The SWP realised sometime ago they had missed the boat with the intial stages of the war in that they DID NOT expand, infact they shrunk in size while the rest of the left grew, this was because it manuoevered so quickly from Socialist Alliance activity to ANL to other stuff that it burnt out alot of members. This can be testified locally as well as nationally, and I was also in contact with someone who was involved in holding membership details.
Having worked in Socialist Alliance which was vibrant organisation and had a good oppurtunity to form a credible alternative to Labour, the majority of SA members left because of the way it was so abused by the SWP as extension of their 'building the party' policy. So basically nobody was willing to play ball, and the SA was a shell of its former self - so this entailed a fresh start again with RESPECT but calling for less politics involved so it wouldnt scare Mosque leaders.
So nothing much has really changed only being further down the ladder in offering real working class politics...
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Post by Steve on Sept 13, 2004 15:14:52 GMT
While not a lover of the Marxist gossip sheet, the Weekly Worker, these articles are worth having a look at. The first is from someone who has just resigned from the SWP National Committee. Interesting in it is how he was elected, he wasn't asked, and how their internal 'democracy' works. www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/543/swp.htmThe second article is about a re-structuring of the SWP. When I worked for Manchester City Council we used to have these as well. Usually means something’s going wrong and they need to cover it up. www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/543/swp%20reorg.htm |
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Post by thismachinebleeds on Sept 16, 2004 13:01:49 GMT
firstley and foremost i would say that in view of respects initial battle cry of 'GET OUR TROOPS OUT' the sentiment was abound with the same rethoric of the lib dems. this in itself is no real suprise, because as october lost rightfully said, it was a popularist move. its the same as anyother political party movement, jus the same as the conservatives and just the same as the bnp, or even the old age pensioner party (just thought id say that the oap party candidate got more votes in a ward down south than the respect candidate did...haha!). they cotton on to singular issues and play them to death. everyone with a concionse(?) knows that the war in afganistan was wrong, and that the war in iraq was wrong and that the war on terror is a tactical move to further the interests of the capital class of leading nations (as most wars are). We dont need to be told these issues, moralism tells us that war is wrong.
to be honest, i find it transparantly endemic within the respect coalition and in the ranks of the SWP that they are racist (especially in this area), because, its trying to wangle its way in to the muslim communities and impose itself by snuggling up to the muslim leaders and then to become a dominant party, within these communities. because the party is made up of mostly white, middle class people, its sentiments are basically that of white middle class people, and because of this it seems prevalent to me that the white middle class people who dominate the party are trying to tell the minorities that 'we' the white people of great britain are telling 'you' the coloured people of great britain to vote for us and we will sort everything out for you, as you cant do it yourself. to me that is racist and in all honesty sick. its no good saying that the respect coalition gives these communities a voice, because to me this suggests that they can only have a voice through a dominant white culture, this dominant white culture which is soooo prevalent within our society is what we have to destroy to make a fair and equal society, but thats another post ;D
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Post by michele cryer on Sept 16, 2004 17:12:36 GMT
A very interesting perspective on things...thanks thismachinebleeds  |
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