Post by Mitch on Mar 1, 2005 14:04:22 GMT
post from Pilgrim/enrager feb 28
enrager.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4043&start=45
This post interested me much on enrager - and it's probs where I'm pretty much at, although I don't 'ploughshare??', instead focus on the local, and community campaigns that I can assist. I got better things to do now than bait the swerps, they dig their own holes.
Wondered what others thought?
"I'm on Urban75 as well, and was a bit of a Trot-baiter for quite a while, but I've laid off the Trot-baiting in recent weeks. The Trots seem to do a pretty good job of humiliating themselves without any extra help from me, especially Rebel Warrior and friends.
I don't think that simply baiting Trots for the sake of it, or to score a few cheap points in debate, is really worth the effort required. The best way to deal with them is simply to demolish their arguments with established fact, and point out their continual and frequently entirely inconsistent changes of line, many of which are often partially or even completely at odds with their previous policy. For example, their tendency to claim that there is "no parliamentary road" and then exhort people to "vote RESPECT", often in the same sentence. Orwellian "doublethink" seems to have become commonplace in the SWP nowadays.
It is worth noting, and, yes, I have been guilty of this mistake in the past, that the ordinary rank-and-file Swappie tends to be a pretty decent sort as a rule, and not necessarily a Trotbot, Swapbot, Robotrot or any other disparaging name often given to SWP members. It is the leadership who seem to be at fault. Due to the serious lack of internal democracy within the SWP, and Sue Blackwell's resignation letter is a case in point, the membership have little or no role in shaping leadership policy, and seem almost in fear of upsetting the top brass in the party for fear of expulsion or of simply being frozen out. The trouble with the rank-and-file membership is that they are reluctant to take steps to curb the excesses of their leaders, and the result is that the leaders seem to have forgotten that they exist to serve their members and not the other way around.
Personally, I see nothing wrong in reaching out to disillusioned Swappies and offering them Anarchist alternatives. I'm doing this at the moment with an increasingly disillusioned Swappie locally. Not preaching, or ranting, or pretending to know what is best for them, or dismissing them as a mindless Trot without getting to know them first, but debating the issues openly and, as far as is possible, without petty backstabbing or rancour. When I left the SWP after 18 months of pretty active campaigning, I might easily have left activism altogether, had I not had Trident Ploughshares to carry on with.
I'd describe myself as a non-aligned anarcho now, after a brief flirtation with the Greens. Actually DOING activism, via the local Claimants Union and Trident Ploughshares, rather than simply engaging in random spats with Trots on message boards, is where I want to concentrate my energy now. Becoming a keyboard warrior at the expense of actually getting out and doing something isn't good activism to my mind."
enrager.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4043&start=45
This post interested me much on enrager - and it's probs where I'm pretty much at, although I don't 'ploughshare??', instead focus on the local, and community campaigns that I can assist. I got better things to do now than bait the swerps, they dig their own holes.
Wondered what others thought?
"I'm on Urban75 as well, and was a bit of a Trot-baiter for quite a while, but I've laid off the Trot-baiting in recent weeks. The Trots seem to do a pretty good job of humiliating themselves without any extra help from me, especially Rebel Warrior and friends.
I don't think that simply baiting Trots for the sake of it, or to score a few cheap points in debate, is really worth the effort required. The best way to deal with them is simply to demolish their arguments with established fact, and point out their continual and frequently entirely inconsistent changes of line, many of which are often partially or even completely at odds with their previous policy. For example, their tendency to claim that there is "no parliamentary road" and then exhort people to "vote RESPECT", often in the same sentence. Orwellian "doublethink" seems to have become commonplace in the SWP nowadays.
It is worth noting, and, yes, I have been guilty of this mistake in the past, that the ordinary rank-and-file Swappie tends to be a pretty decent sort as a rule, and not necessarily a Trotbot, Swapbot, Robotrot or any other disparaging name often given to SWP members. It is the leadership who seem to be at fault. Due to the serious lack of internal democracy within the SWP, and Sue Blackwell's resignation letter is a case in point, the membership have little or no role in shaping leadership policy, and seem almost in fear of upsetting the top brass in the party for fear of expulsion or of simply being frozen out. The trouble with the rank-and-file membership is that they are reluctant to take steps to curb the excesses of their leaders, and the result is that the leaders seem to have forgotten that they exist to serve their members and not the other way around.
Personally, I see nothing wrong in reaching out to disillusioned Swappies and offering them Anarchist alternatives. I'm doing this at the moment with an increasingly disillusioned Swappie locally. Not preaching, or ranting, or pretending to know what is best for them, or dismissing them as a mindless Trot without getting to know them first, but debating the issues openly and, as far as is possible, without petty backstabbing or rancour. When I left the SWP after 18 months of pretty active campaigning, I might easily have left activism altogether, had I not had Trident Ploughshares to carry on with.
I'd describe myself as a non-aligned anarcho now, after a brief flirtation with the Greens. Actually DOING activism, via the local Claimants Union and Trident Ploughshares, rather than simply engaging in random spats with Trots on message boards, is where I want to concentrate my energy now. Becoming a keyboard warrior at the expense of actually getting out and doing something isn't good activism to my mind."