WHAT FOLLOWS BELOW IS THE POSTS ON PAGE 5. OF THE THREAD ENTITLED: 'GOD HELP THE ANARCHIST MOVEMENT THAT NEEDS HEROES' ON THE LIBCOM SITE. My review, which originally appeared on this thread, was put on LIBCOM on Tuesday morning. It is now up to p5. It seems to have trod on a few toes: see below:
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oisleep
a place for parks
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
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Location: Belgrade
Posted: Wed 08 Jun, 2005 12:37 pm Post subject:
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i know, but bryan has implied above that SC says it's not authentic?
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oisleep
a place for parks
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 446
Location: Belgrade
Posted: Wed 08 Jun, 2005 12:42 pm Post subject:
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John. wrote:
oisleep wrote:
does he endorse the version at £12.99 then, or does he advise to ignore it?
Er, no he got that book published
but the content thereoff was outside his control according to bryan? that doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement, or is that just to help flog the elite version?
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John.
Long, long life to Chairman Gonzalo!
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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Posted: Wed 08 Jun, 2005 12:42 pm Post subject:
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oisleep wrote:
i know, but bryan has implied above that SC says it's not authentic?
No it's just not comprehensive.
The 3 -volume one has over 1,000 big-ass pages (they're like A4 aren't they?). The commercial one is about 350 pages all together.
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oisleep
a place for parks
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
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Location: Belgrade
Posted: Wed 08 Jun, 2005 1:27 pm Post subject:
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bryan wrote:
The only authentic version, he insisted, is the 3 volume £105 edition.
icepick wrote:
No it's just not comprehensive
so in this case does comprehensive = authentic?
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John.
Long, long life to Chairman Gonzalo!
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Posts: 2301
Location: Hackney
Posted: Wed 08 Jun, 2005 2:07 pm Post subject:
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oisleep wrote:
bryan wrote:
The only authentic version, he insisted, is the 3 volume £105 edition.
icepick wrote:
No it's just not comprehensive
so in this case does comprehensive = authentic?
No, Bryan has an agenda, it should be pretty obvious that this thread is basically an attack on Christie.
It is authentic - it's just cut down (you don't see many 1,100 page A4 books in WHSmiths...)
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oisleep
a place for parks
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 446
Location: Belgrade
Posted: Wed 08 Jun, 2005 2:41 pm Post subject:
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i'd kinda gathered that, so are you saying bryan is misrepresenting SC's comments on the "authenticity" or otherwise of the non-elite version?
couldn't he just have a pop at him for voting respect instead? maybe george could publish SC's book through Friction books as a favour to SC for him voting for themand make it a bit more cheaper
bryan?
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gav
Piotr Kropotkin
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
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Posted: Wed 08 Jun, 2005 3:43 pm Post subject:
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oisleep wrote:
couldn't he just have a pop at him for voting respect instead? maybe george could publish SC's book through Friction books as a favour to SC for him voting for themand make it a bit more cheaper
SC voted respect as a personal antiwar 'statement', trouble is, he told his mate who was a respect press officer, and it got made public, but its hardly a big deal that he voted is it?
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Jack
libcom 4 life
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
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Posted: Wed 08 Jun, 2005 4:52 pm Post subject:
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gav wrote:
SC voted respect as a personal antiwar 'statement', trouble is, he told his mate who was a respect press officer, and it got made public, but its hardly a big deal that he voted is it?
It wouldn't be if RESPECT weren't FASCISTS.
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oisleep
a place for parks
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 446
Location: Belgrade
Posted: Wed 08 Jun, 2005 5:44 pm Post subject:
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gav wrote:
oisleep wrote:
couldn't he just have a pop at him for voting respect instead? maybe george could publish SC's book through Friction books as a favour to SC for him voting for themand make it a bit more cheaper
SC voted respect as a personal antiwar 'statement', trouble is, he told his mate who was a respect press officer, and it got made public, but its hardly a big deal that he voted is it?
big deal that he voted. or big deal that he voted respect?
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Jack
libcom 4 life
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
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Location: Only posting ironically
Posted: Wed 08 Jun, 2005 6:05 pm Post subject:
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Both.
It's hardly fucking crossing a picket line or grassing up your mates, is it?
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oisleep
a place for parks
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
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Location: Belgrade
Posted: Wed 08 Jun, 2005 6:24 pm Post subject:
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what if your mate is a fascist who crossed a picket line, would you not grass him up?
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Jack
libcom 4 life
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Posted: Wed 08 Jun, 2005 6:26 pm Post subject:
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Only if he voted respect.
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bryan bamford nv
Grim Up North London
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 27
Location: north west
Posted: Thu 09 Jun, 2005 6:16 am Post subject: God help the anarchist movement that needs heroes!
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YES JOHN, I DO HAVE AN 'AGENDA', AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, AND THAT IS TO TELL MY SIDE OF THE STORY IN A STRAIGHT FORWARD WAY AS I REMEMBER IT.
I think the debate about the price of Stuart Christie's various autobiographies - which include the 'The Christie File', written some years ago (about 1980, at that time the cheapest) - and his decision to vote Respect (which may have been done to increase sales of the commercial version of his £10.99 book among sections of the authoritarian left) are not what are of most concern to us. What ought to be of serious concern to the UK anarchists is how much mine & Stuart's adventures damaged the struggle against Franco in the early 1960s.
One of the posts above says: 'even if Stuart Christie was slightly dishonest he shouldn't attack him, just correct him.'
Well it is not just about a few corrections, which need to be made about 'slightly dishonest' material. My point is that Stuart in his own account in his own autobiography (based on both the 'Franco File' & 'My Granny...' £10.99) was engaged in 1964 in something like a 'comic opera' with tragic consequencies for some people in Spain, France & England, and perhaps worse that our actions (I was involved in propaganda to discourage tourism to Spain), and his actions in particular, weakened the struggle against Franco. It damaged the Spanish movement by fingering Carballo; it endangered the FIJL and exile resistance in France by fingering people like Germinal Garcia, and in the rest of Europe after his arrest, as he admits anti-Franco activity dried up: and Stuart writes '...there had been very few organised actions since my arrest,...'
The danger of this kind of autobiography, or autobiographies, is not just of being 'slightly dishonest', but of glossing over the truth in a very anglo-centric way. Glossing in this way can be even more dangerous than a straight forward lie.
From an anglo-centric point of view our adventures can be presented as a quaint publicity stunt in so far as it gained us coverage in the British media. But in Europe where the authorities had an eye on the anarchists and other anti-Franco movements, it could be used by the police as an excuse for a crack down on the serious struggle taking place against the Franco regime.
In answer to this Stuart told me at Newcastle; that the CNT in France in the 1960s, had always wanted to pull the plug on the underground resistance campaign against Franco. It seemed he thought his arrest gave the CNT leaders a reason to restrain the FIJL.
Any serious analysis of this kind of material always requires critical robustness and rigour which some people may find offensive. It involves more than crossing 't's' and dotting 'i's'. The trouble that because they have been ignored and disregarded as a political force the British anarchists are not used to rigourous criticism. This is, I suppose, another aspect of our anglo-centric nature.
The original review above first appeared, in February, on the BURNLEY VOICE website:
oogleboogle.proboards23.com That site gives coverage to a thread on NORTHERN ANARCHISM & the Northern Anarchist Network.