Vivisection

[octoberlost]

Greetings Im new to the board, thought Id drop in and address a few points about vivisection.

Firstly from a moral point of view its completely unjustifiable, since its based on systematic cruelty, but secondly and most importantly animal vivisection is a very poor model for human medicine. For example the differences in nervous systems of animals ensures that
drugs have a completely different affect than they would do in humans.

Vivisectors counter this claim with numerous drugs which they claim have been developed out of animal testing, but when one takes into account that drug testing doesnt solely rely on one method of testing, that the recent figures for animals tested in labs runs at somewhere round about the 3 million mark (which is a twenty year low!), that we test animals for diseases which are unique to humans and that very few animal cures seemed to have been derived in the last 20 years one gets a picture of how gross a blackalley vivisection is.

For example Gay rights campaigner Peter Tatchell is arguing that AIDS tests on animals is holding back the scientific community!
www.petertatchell.net/aids%20&%20animal%20rights/aids%20&%20animal%20rights%20index.htm

And by no means the scientific community quiet with there view on vivisection being a diaster, Ray Greek argues that monkeys in the Oxford labs are going to have 'tragic consequences'.
www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0%2C3604%2C1100398%2C00.html

One also should state how numerous drugs which have been safe on animals have gone on to hurt even kill humans not to mention, good drugs that have been sidelined because they had negative effects on animals.
www.vivisection-absurd.org.uk/errors.html
www.vivisection-absurd.org.uk/facts.html

The current project at Oxford is to build a lab where studies can improve our understanding of the human brain by cutting up monkeys!
I post numerous links where vivisection claims are refuted please follow them up, if you have any questions dont hesitate to ask

www.catleugh.freeserve.co.uk/vivmyths.htm
www.vernoncoleman.com/main.htm
www.pnc.com.au/~cafmr/

Organisations against vivisection
www.uncaged.co.uk/
www.buav.org/
www.navs.org/
www.dlrm.org/

[michele cryer]

Octoberlost,

Thank you very much for your comments regarding this subject, and the links which you have provided. I will be reading thru the links and will post any comments I have afterwards.

I am glad that you have re stated my comment regarding the differences between the effects that drugs have on animals and on humans as this is obviously where most people have difficulty in deciding whether or not they agree with drugs testing on animals.

Michele

[laura]

i actually dissagree with your points on vivisection!
some things just have to be delt with and maybe you should find a way to put up with it, vivisection on animals has saved so many lives!
i have learnt to think of it this way, we help animals so why cant they help us.
i hope you understand what i am getting at!
thanks

[michele cryer]

Laura, Vivisection is obviously a very emotive subject..I suffer from a heart condition and have an artificial aortic valve...fortunately I was given the choice of receiving either a tissue valve..from a pig, or a mechanical valve...titanium and plastic...I chose the mechanical valve even though it means that I must take warfarin (rat poison) for the rest of my life.

I urge you to read carefully the articles that Octoberlost has provided links to as they give good, sound arguments against the need for testing on animals for our medications, and highlight the problems that have occurred when testing on animals has produced negative results in certain tests where the drug being tested has later been found to be satisfactory for use on humans...

Animals are very helpful to us, alive...for instance, guide dogs for the blind, the use of animals in hospital visits to ease blood pressure/stress in patients, horses on farms, I do not feel that it is necessary to kill animals in order for them to prove their worth to us...

[octoberlost]

Cheers Michelle.
My mother died of luekemia and it sickens me the way the biomedical industry use peoples illnesses to defend their mistratment of animals. If drug companies care so much for developing cures, then why are we not helping getting drugs to the needy in places like Africa?

Money remains their only motivation...

To the best of my knowledge no animal gets luekemia, but that doesnt stop them testing animals for a potential cure how sad!

The point that I would stress is that 1) its morally and wholly indefensible. No one as the right to violate others, even if it appears more will potentially benefit. If we took this view we individuals may as well cease to have rights, if it comes into conflict

2) It isnt really scientific to gather data from animal testing and apply it to humans. It has lead to so many diasters its quite sickening. And as to the suppossed cures, well they have been sadly lacking in the last 20 years or so, due mainly to the break through of population studies, computer reproduction, tissue, and autopsy studies....

[michele cryer]

Thank you Octoberlost...I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments.