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Post by michele cryer on Sept 12, 2005 14:28:16 GMT
Thanks for bringing us this report bryan...I hope that the Burnley Anarchists can do justice to this commemoration too.
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Post by Mitch on Sept 12, 2005 15:36:56 GMT
Cool, it's own section. Hey guess what Michele - they still have all the Nelson Leaders at Nelson library dating from around 1901. Anywise, you fancy going through some of these I'd say from 1935 to the end of the 1930s - looking for evidence particularly of local factory workers sending food parcels to and raising money for the CNT during the 1930s. I think we might find some interesting stuff - was thinking a couple of Saturdays in October sometime - be fun! Also, if we find some stuff - we could put some posts up on that Lancashire history site - see what other local history followers have to say.
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Post by bryan on Sept 16, 2005 17:13:11 GMT
The material below was posted on the libcom site (NW region) on the 70th anniversary of the Spanish Civil thread: _____________________________________________________________________
The commemoration of the 70th anniversary of the Spanish Civil War has already been discussed on the NAN thread (of libcom). A sub-committee of the Greater Manchester County Association of Trade Union Councils was set up and met throughout the Summer to plan this project. Several other people were co-opted onto this committee: Ron of Sol Fed; some local members of the International Brigade; a member of the Working Class Library.
In August this sub-committee became an independent committee in its own right with a membership, secretary, treasurer & chairman etc.
There are differences of emphasis on this committee. Some wanted to merely commemorate the local people from Greater Manchester who went to fight in the International Brigade. Others are insisting that the event should be placed in its historical context as well. Organisations such as the Spanish trade union confederations - CNT & UGT - should be given full credit for their contributions in that struggle. This has caused some problems for those who want it just to be an anglo-centric event.
Strangely, when it was suggested at the July meeting that the CNT's contribution should not be marginalised at this event, Ron of Sol Fed sat on the fence saying ' We can argue about this forever...but I think the Jewish contribution and the Basque catholic contribution should be represented.' Now why did he side against the CNT? Why did he back the Basque catholics and Jewish contribution, given that Steve also of Sol Fed has said on another thread ' We don't like priests'?
We waited in vain for Ron's attendance at the meeting last Saturday. He never came. But it would have been interesting to see if he had supported the majority at that meeting who wanted fair presentation of the Spanish peoples' contribution to the fight against the army of General Franco in 1936.
The Manchester Social Forum, which campaigned so well with the Manchester electricians, is supporting this event as is the NAN and Northern Voices. We are glad that Burnley Anarchists are as keen as mustard about this event and we expect wider support as this project gathers momentum. __________________________________________________________________________ Steve writes:
Are you sure or did they go off to fight in the International Brigades/support the Republican government? Very few (if any) anarchists from Britain went to fight in the CNT/FAI militias.
Btw was this memorial committee set up up by NAN? ________________________________________________________________________
Well no, like most Englishmen/women at that time they wouldn't understand the conflict in Spain in 1936. Even Orwell wrote later that had he understood what was really going on in Spain, he would have joined the CNT rather than the POUM. That is why the character in the Loach/ Allen film 'Land & Freedom' is portrayed as an innocent abroad who gradually becomes more clued-up as he experiences the facts of the Spanish war.
The NAN and the Trade Union Councils have already interviewed Pedro,an 84-year-old Catalan who lives in Bolton and served in the Republican police towards the end of the Civil War when he was a 17-year-old. Though he was born in Barcelona, Pedro comes from a family which originated in Murcia. His father was a member of the CNT, though the family was socialist rather than anarchist. Despite this he has high regard for Durutti & Acaso and the rest of the Nosotros Affinity Group, who fought and helped beat the military rising on 19th, July 1939. He told NORTHERN VOICES he nothing but contempt for Negrin, the Soviets and Stalin, who tried to turn Spain into a colony of the Soviet Union.
As we first met Pedro about 1970 when I was introduced to him by Paco, a Castilian who lives in Rochdale, we have a good relationship and he has agreed to become involved in next year's commemorations. This should ensure that the event is balanced. However, though the Sol Fed are apparently involved in this event through their member Ron from Chorlton it seems that judging by Steve's (Preston Sol Fed) comments that they may not be totally emotionally committed to the project.
It would be nice if they - Sol Fed - could make their position clear: is Ron just acting in a personal capacity again? When he was in the Manchester Social Forum (another body which is committed to supporting the Spanish Civil War event) it was claimed that he was only acting as an individual. It may well be that again he is on this Spanish Civil War commemoration committee as an individual and this may explain his lack of support for the CNT contribution to be presented in a fair light.
Tameside Trade Union Council's position is clear: we want the Spanish war to be presented in a clear historical perspective. Manchester Social Forum's stand, following last night's meeting, is firmly for a honest account of that war: warts and all. The NANista position, judgeing by the Shropshire conference response, is that the libertarians and their efforts in the Civil War should not be ignored. The spokewoman from Salford Trade Union Council argued that the historical context should not be overlooked. Ron from Chorlton Sol Fed still has not made his position clear and Steve of Preston Sol Fed seems to make a negative contribution (see above).
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Post by Barrywoodling on Sept 21, 2005 14:32:50 GMT
There is a good chance that the next meeting of the Northern Anarchist Network will take place in Newcastle Upon Tyne on November 12 or November 19. I am in touch with a companero in Newcastle who is exploring possible venues
Barry Woodling Nanista
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Post by michele cryer on Sept 21, 2005 15:31:54 GMT
Thanks for that info regarding the Spanish Civil War Commemorations Bryan, and Barry thanks for the info regarding the next N.A.N. conference...
Mitch! I'm sorry I completely missed your post regarding searching thru the old editions of the Nelson Leader...I would love to spend some time in October doing this with you...used to spend hours in Burnley Library looking thru their old stuff years ago!!! Fantastic..
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Post by barrywoodling on Oct 5, 2005 14:36:39 GMT
The next meeting of the Northern Anarchist Network will take place on Saturday November 12th at the Bridge Pub in Newcastle upon Tyne from 11.30am to 5 pm. We hope to have speakers from the IWW and also Dave Chaple from Somerset.
This promises to be a really exciting conference and hopefully a number of useful contacts will be made with Newcastle anarchists and radicals many of whom attended the Projectile festival in Newcastle earlier this year.
Barry Woodling
Nortern Anarchist Network
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Post by Mitch on Oct 5, 2005 17:11:28 GMT
Looking forward to it, thanks Barry.
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Post by michele cryer on Oct 5, 2005 22:18:24 GMT
Great news Barry... I believe the nightlife in Newcastle is fantastic, so it's well worth an overnight stay, if anyone's up for it? Shared rooms, cut the cost? perhaps a travel lodge if it's cheaper?
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Post by Mitch on Oct 6, 2005 8:20:54 GMT
Great news Barry... I believe the nightlife in Newcastle is fantastic, so it's well worth an overnight stay, if anyone's up for it? Shared rooms, cut the cost? perhaps a travel lodge if it's cheaper? Fantastic idea, give us time in the pub afterwards as well, as we always seem to be dashing off! Fred should hopefully be feeling a lot better by then too. tara Mitch x
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Post by michele cryer on Oct 6, 2005 14:21:35 GMT
Glad you like the idea Mitch..will start my usual online search for B&B's 'n' travel lodges!!
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Post by bryan on Oct 6, 2005 17:21:36 GMT
Last night Ron of Sol fed was asked straight after the Manchester Sol Fed meeting, if he would be backing the anarchists on the Commemoration Committee for the 70th Anniversary of the Spanish Civil War. Would he be arguing that the CNT and the libertarians contribution be put in a fair light. He was sitting with three decent comrades from the Sol Fed and at first he tried to change the subject. When I persisted: 'Would he back the anarchists!' he retorted: 'I don't regard you as an anarchist'.
Be that as it may, I asked: 'Will you be supporting the CNT in the committee?' or 'Will you be backing the Stalinists?' 'Just think of it as though you are in Barcelona and the anarchists are asking you if you will support the anarchists or the Stalinists' Amazingly he said: 'I'd rather support the Stalinists than you'
This creates obvious problems for the Sol Fed. Unless Ron retracts this statement or the Sol Fed disassociates itself from his comments the Sol Fed will be implicated with those who Orwell accused of 'neccessary murder'. Ron could always blame it on the drink (lager on this occasion I suspect) or his natural bad tempered nature for which he is famous. But there ought to be a retraction either by Ron or the Sol Fed should distance themselves from him.
This is much more serious than the purge of Petty or any abuse against me. Because what Ron has said here has serious policy implications and involves vital issues of principle for the organisation to which he belongs. It is an insult to the CNT and those who died in Spain, not only the anarchists. It seems to cheapen that struggle to the price of a free library pass for Ron and his wife at the Working Class Library.
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Post by michele cryer on Oct 6, 2005 18:16:36 GMT
Oh dear Bryan...I'm sorry to hear this sort of thing rearing its ugly head again...
I hope that you do get some sort of apology or explanation for Ron's behaviour and comments to you...
I still say that it is all right to have personal likes and dislikes in private, but when it comes to us all working together on issues of importance, we ought to put those personal likes/dislikes to one side and see the greater issue...
I hope that this can be done on this occasion...I, for one, would not like to see anything like a repeat of last year's scuffles between Solfed and NAN...
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Post by bryan on Oct 7, 2005 16:16:49 GMT
The problem is that Ron when asked has now said: 'I will support the Stalinist...' interpretation on the committee of the Spanish Civil War of the 70th anniversary commemoration. He has attended enough meetings and he fully understands that, in this context, that by doing this he will be involved in a cover-up of the issues and history of that struggle. To say this is the same as someone saying effectively 'I support the Nazis'.
This is a stand which must stand in direct contradiction to what I would think the Sol Fed and most the libertarians believe in. This is not bad manners. It is not rudeness. It is a betrayal of anarchism by someone who has been involved with the anarcho-syndicalist movement since the 1960s. It is a betrayal at a time when the anarchists are strongly placed on the Manchester scene and the communists/Stalinists are discredited. That is what makes what Ron has said and done not a impolite move but a dumb move.
Some may call it a suicidal political step personally for Ron. Certainly if he carries out his threat he will be politically dead in the water, because no section of the libertarians left will be able to defend such a stand. But beyond that others on the non-Stalinist left and decent liberals would not be able to feel comfortable with such a person.
The events of the Spanish Civil War are now well documented and even the casual reader is aware of what crimes were committed by the communists in Spain. Murder is almost too polite a word to describe what went on there and the twisting of historical events such as to make accounts which Orwell said don't even 'have the relationship to the truth of an ordinary lie'.
The path that Ron of Sol Fed has embarked upon here is beneath contempt. At this late stage I hope he or his friends in Sol Fed can tell us that I have misunderstood him and that things are not as they appear, but rather the product of the beer or anger.
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Post by michele cryer on Oct 8, 2005 1:15:34 GMT
Thanks Bryan...let's hope for a good outcome to this situation...that's all I can say...
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Post by Mitch on Oct 8, 2005 12:28:56 GMT
Hey Michele, It's Sat 12 Nov - see below from Barry.
We could travel up the night before and stay in cheap b&b for a couple of nights. Are we having an anarchist meeting this Thursday 13th Oct at the League to discuss details, and get everyone along.
Looks like a fascinating programme.
tara Mitch x
The Northern Anarchist Network is holding its next conference on Saturday 12th November at the Bridge Pub Newcastle Upon Tyne between 11.30am and 5pm. Speakers will be invited from the IWW, working class militants and Mitzi Waltz who has written a book on Women and Spain.
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Post by Mitch on Oct 8, 2005 13:13:24 GMT
The problem is that Ron when asked has now said: 'I will support the Stalinist...' interpretation on the committee of the Spanish Civil War of the 70th anniversary commemoration. He has attended enough meetings and he fully understands that, in this context, that by doing this he will be involved in a cover-up of the issues and history of that struggle. To say this is the same as someone saying effectively 'I support the Nazis'. This is a stand which must stand in direct contradiction to what I would think the Sol Fed and most the libertarians believe in. This is not bad manners. It is not rudeness. It is a betrayal of anarchism by someone who has been involved with the anarcho-syndicalist movement since the 1960s. It is a betrayal at a time when the anarchists are strongly placed on the Manchester scene and the communists/Stalinists are discredited. That is what makes what Ron has said and done not a impolite move but a dumb move. Some may call it a suicidal political step personally for Ron. Certainly if he carries out his threat he will be politically dead in the water, because no section of the libertarians left will be able to defend such a stand. But beyond that others on the non-Stalinist left and decent liberals would not be able to feel comfortable with such a person. The events of the Spanish Civil War are now well documented and even the casual reader is aware of what crimes were committed by the communists in Spain. Murder is almost too polite a word to describe what went on there and the twisting of historical events such as to make accounts which Orwell said don't even 'have the relationship to the truth of an ordinary lie'. The path that Ron of Sol Fed has embarked upon here is beneath contempt. At this late stage I hope he or his friends in Sol Fed can tell us that I have misunderstood him and that things are not as they appear, but rather the product of the beer or anger. Ahh, the Stalinists at the WCML, I have come face to face with them before, and the pain of it is still keenly felt as I was green as the grass at the time, and had no idea of the sectarian baggage they carried. But it was a good lesson in the dirty tricks that can be played by those who work topdown, who crush creativity, and wish to preserve their corners of power with their own agendas. There are some very decent people on the committee though who I have fond memories of. As with these things though, their own bitterness and sectarianism implodes in on themselves (much like the Swerps), and the bigger beast, Salford Council is hard at work picking apart one of the best working class archives in the country. I weep for that last fact! Lucky for me, I had a companion with me with a straight back and a determination to challenge. Together we got through it, with the help of others in Manchester. That companion I hold dear, much as I do Mr Petty who also has a straight back, and stands by his comrades. As an anarchist standing with these Stalinists - is the man mad. Rather, to stand openly against them as anarchists in Manchester is what is needed. I think you called this 'dealing with shit in your own backyard' Bryan. I support your challenge with a straight back, but unfortunately with an abscessed tooth causing temporary feebleness. ;D
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Post by michele cryer on Oct 8, 2005 15:11:33 GMT
Thanks for the update on the next NAN Conference Mitch...
I'd love to travel up there on the Thursday and stay a couple of nights...have been looking on a B&B website, one I've used in the past for cheap accommodation...and found a few which charge between £40-50+ per room/per night for double rooms and twin too...mainly these are in the NE4 postcode area and are just a mile from the main rail station which is in the centre of the city!!
Let me know if you want me to enquire about making a booking...
Yeah, I think we should have a B.A. meeting in Burnley this Thursday, since it's been a while since we've all been together anyway...
Thanks for showing your support for Bryan and anarchists in general, Mitch! I wish I could compose posts like the ones wot u and him does! lol
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Post by Mitch on Oct 11, 2005 9:55:05 GMT
Thanks for showing your support for Bryan and anarchists in general, Mitch! I wish I could compose posts like the ones wot u and him does! lol Now then, now then - a quick word in ya shell like, 'shell! If it wasn't for you and Sal and others locally nearly a year back, I would have nearly taken a wrong turn. Fortunately I have a sharp and intuitive friend like you to keep me on track, reminding me that it's no good not to challenge those who would tell you how to think and how to organise. Trust your own experience, certainly I learn much from it. Onward, friend. Mitch xx ;D (I think these anti-biotics are making me very emotional - eek ;D ;D
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Post by michele cryer on Oct 11, 2005 13:05:45 GMT
LOL Mitch..'the crying game' eh? Thanks for having so much confidence in me...you know I feel the same way about you and our B.A. friends too...and our Lets friends!!
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Post by bryan on Oct 13, 2005 18:03:17 GMT
What would we do without you as our gentle umpire, michele?
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Post by michele cryer on Oct 13, 2005 23:12:29 GMT
Awww...thanks Bryan!
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Post by barrywoodling on Oct 25, 2005 11:14:19 GMT
Northern Anarchist Network Conference
Just a quick reminder that the Northern Anarchist Network Conference will take place on Saturday 12th November 2005 at the Bridge Hotel, Castle Square near the Tyne Bridge, Newcastle Upon Tyne between 11.30am and 5pm.
2 main sessions are planned one on women and Spain with particular reference to the Spanish Anarchist womens group Mujeres Libres and it is hoped that Mitzi Waltz will give a talk on her new book "Women in Spain" and the other on workplace struggles. Dave Douglas from the IWW and Dave Chaple postal worker will introduce this session.
This Conference is breaking new ground and should enable new contacts to be established across the Northern region.
Barry Woodling
Northern Anarchist Network
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Post by michele cryer on Oct 25, 2005 15:22:09 GMT
Thanks for that Barry...sounds very interesting...on a 'personal note' regarding the session on Spanish women and anarchism, is that to be mainly about 'mainland' Spain, and the women there, or is it to cover the Basque country? and the women there? Just a friend of mine might be interested if it does cover the Basque country too...please let me know, if you can.
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Post by Mitch on Oct 25, 2005 20:26:31 GMT
I reckon our basque friend would be well interested Michele.
This looks a superb programme Barry, I know we're all looking forward to it very much. As well as the 'Women in the Spanish Civil War' talk, I'm also very much looking forward to hearing from Dave Chaple again.
I've been thinking a lot about his talk at the last conference and have many questions for him.
See you there.
Mitch
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Post by michele cryer on Oct 30, 2005 1:32:44 GMT
I'm still really looking forward to this conference...Mitch, have we decided whether or not we're gonna definitely stay over on the Saturday night, or are we just gonna take our chances on finding a B&B after the pubs close, if we have to? ;D
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Post by Mitch on Oct 31, 2005 15:26:43 GMT
I'm still really looking forward to this conference...Mitch, have we decided whether or not we're gonna definitely stay over on the Saturday night, or are we just gonna take our chances on finding a B&B after the pubs close, if we have to? ;D Hey up, hadn't forgotten just thinking of a cunning plan involving convincing Reg he needs to take his car up too, so we then have two cars and those who don't wanna stay come back straight after, and those who don't stay - we can decide for definite at this week's meeting anywise. Could be cheaper having another night out in Burnley? More on Thursday. tara Mitch x (PS. Cotty's just spotted mould on his cheese butties, unfortunately I've just wolfed my two down - ah well, they tasted alreet!....... I feel sick now!) PPS. the cunning plan involves ensuring that Reg is at the meeting this Thursday, plus Eileen, need to know if she's coming) PPPS. Cotty may go on for several hours this eve when you're round for tea about the mould on his butties - apologies in advance ;D ;D ;D
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Post by michele cryer on Oct 31, 2005 18:15:20 GMT
LOL Mitch, it's okay...yeah, think we should talk more about all this on Thursday, will get in touch with Reg and Eileen, if I can remember, to invite them both to the meeting...
Awww...Poor Mitch, eating mouldy cheese butties...well some people prefer it mouldy! yuk! ;D
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Post by barrywoodling on Nov 3, 2005 12:23:42 GMT
A final reminder that the NAN conference is on Saturday November 12, 2005 from 11.30am to 5pm at the Bridge Hotel, Castle Square, Newcastle Upon Tyne . We hope that a number of companeros and companeras from Newcastle will take part There is a possibility of some overnight accommodation but I cannot confirm at the moment.
Barry Woodling
Northern Anarchist Network
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Post by michele cryer on Nov 3, 2005 22:14:35 GMT
Thank you Barry...looking forward to meeting you all there again.
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Post by Mitch on Nov 13, 2005 19:30:28 GMT
The NAN conference up in Newcastle on Saturday just gone was excellent as usual. Particular highlights for me were Barry's talk on Mujeres Libres - fantastic and inspiring, thanks Barry. Bryan was a great speaker, plus I think for both Michele and I it was a real highlight for us when Fred stood up and put his points on the very different times and circumstances in the Spanish Civil War as compared to today. Anywise, I took some notes and will try and get these up in the next few days. Really enjoyed the day, and learnt from it as usual. Thanks so much to organisers. (Nice bitter in The Bridge as well, enjoyed that!! Cheers, Mitch PS. We like the journey to these events just as much, as Fred always keeps us entertained! ;D (& Reginald Percy Perring your nuts are all over the back seat of my car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D)
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